George Rooke (george_rooke) wrote,
George Rooke
george_rooke

Так делается история

Пока "научный" форум погряз в разборках, на задворках Цусимы реально делается история. Внимание - ТУРЕЦКИЕ данные по Чесменскому бою от ТУРЕЦКОГО исследователя-историка:



Now I am able to better develop a path of comparative analysis. I'd like to provide also my own knowledge to reconstruct, at long last, the real Ottoman fleet at Chesma campaign.

The document no:7197  from Ottoman archive's "Cevdet Bahriye" catalogue lists how much ammunition of which calibers is going to be carried by the Sultanic ships (i.e. real warships) which are sent to the Mediterranean for the 1770 campaign. The 10 ships and the calibers of their ammunition are as such:

Ziver-i Bahri: 55,5 zira long; 1-kantar, 11 ky, 7ky, 3ky rounds; Riyale Cafer Bey

Burc-u Zafer: 3-kantar, 1-kantar, 14 ky, 3ky rounds; noted to be "üç anbarlı" three decker. Kapudane Cezayirli Hasan Bey

Hısn-i Bahri: 3-kantar, 1-kantar, 14 ky, 7ky, 3ky rounds; noted to be "üç anbarlı". Patrona Ali Bey

Semend-i Bahri: 5ky, 3ky, 1,5 ky rounds; Maliki Mehmed Kapudan

Tılsım-i Bahri: 41,5 zira long; 5 ky, 3ky, 1,5ky rounds

Peleng-i Bahri: 1-kantar, 9ky, 5ky, 3ky rounds, noted as "kebir kalyon" (big galleon)

Sebk-i Bahri: 1-kantar, 11ky, 5 ky, 3ky rounds, noted as "kebir kalyon"

Ukab-ı Bahri: 1-kantar, 9ky, 5ky rounds, noted as "kebir kalyon"

Mukaddeme-i Şeref: 22ky , 7ky rounds

Mesken-i Gazi: 5ky, 3ky, 1,5ky rounds



Перевод кантаров в фунты:

3-Kantar      372 pdr (stone round)
1-Kantar      124 pdr (stone round)         
16 kiyye        45pdr
14 kiyye        40pdr
11 kiyye        31pdr
10 kiyye        28pdr
9 kiyye        25pdr
7 kiyye        20pdr
5 kiyye        14pdr
3 kiyye          8pdr
2 kiyye          6pdr
1.5 kiyye          4pdr   

1 kiyye          3pdr


Here are Admiral Greig's Elphinstone's lists which you sent me:

1st line

Real Mustafa 84 Hassan Pasa
Kapitan Alli-bey 96
Patrona Realo 84
Kapitan Pasa 100 Kaptan Pasa
Patrona Aukara 84
Mulinos Ahmet 84
Jafer-bey 80 Jafer-bey
Emir Mustafa 70
Sultana 74


2nd line

Hamenzey 60
Barbarosena 60
Alli Kandisk 60
Rodos 60
Mekhin 60
Gepulin Pasa 60
Unknown 60
A caravella 50
A caravella 50
A frigate 40
A frigate 40


First and first, there were no frigates in the Ottoman navy because that type of ship simply did not exist in the Ottoman navy at that time! The first frigates of the Ottoman navy were in fact bought from British in 1780's as a policy of technology transfer, by Cezayirli Gazi Hasan Pasha. Similarly there are no recorded caravellas among the ships in the Ottoman document cited above. So those ships, along with others, are certainly merchant ships, and very possibly they are the ships used on the Alexandria-Constantinople convoy. An Ottoman edict of 1719 which regulates the building and maintaining of Egyptian convoy ships clearly dictates that merchant kalyons have to be built in a fashion suitable to be put under naval command if required during wartime. In his superb book "Caravan Maritime", Daniel Panzac explains a clever Ottoman policy of augmenting the navy with 6-8 Egyptian ships in war and transferring the Egyptian trade into neutral flagged (mainly french) vessels to reduce risk of commerce raiding into a minimum. However, the merchant galleons were of very limited value as warships due to their light calibre guns.

So far so good. Now let us try to match the ships of Anglo-Russian list, with those of Ottoman list:

1st line                                                       Ottoman List

Real Mustafa 84 Hassan Pasa                        Burc-u Zafer (three deck), Kapudane Cezayirli Hasan Bey   
Kapitan Alli-bey 96                                       Hısn-i Bahri (three deck), Patrona Ali Bey               
Patrona Realo 84 (excluded by Elphinstone)                             
Kapitan Pasa 100 Kaptan Pasa
Patrona Aukara 84                                       Ukab-ı Bahri (she was "Patrona" ship a year ago, "Aukara" is very possibly a corruption of her Turkish name)
Mulinos Ahmet 84
Jafer-bey 80 Jafer-bey                                 Ziver-i Bahri, Riyale Cafer Bey
Emir Mustafa 70
Sultana 74 (excluded by Elphinstone)


Now comes to question: which ships might be the others ?? one we can identify clearly: Hasan Pasha's biography states that from the great fire in Chesma harbor on July 7, only Maliki Mehmed Kapudan's galleon came unharmed and was captured by Russians. Only one captured Ottoman ship exists: Rodos of 60 guns. So Rodos neatly matches with Maliki Kapudan's ship, which is Semend-i Bahri. From that we can conclude that Tılsım-i Bahri and Mesken-i Gazi were also a 60-gunners because they had exactly the same amount of ammunition for same calibre guns as with Semend-i Bahri.

If we look to the Ottoman document again we see that Sebk-i Bahri and Peleng-i Bahri have ammunition for 4 different calibres of guns. The 53,5 zira long 66-gunner "kebir kalyon" Fatih-i Bahri, which was built in 1746 (also the Şeşpa-yı Bahri II of 1737), had exactly the same calibres of guns as with Sebk-i Bahri; so we can suppose that Sebk had a similar number of guns.  The Çifte Süglün Kıçlı (built between 1730-35) had the same calibre guns as with Peleng-i Bahri and carried 68 guns when new; being reduced to 60 when she get almost 20 years old. By analogy we can suppose that Peleng-i Bahri was also similar.

The redoubtable Count Pyotr Tolstoy had made a first class accurate list of Ottoman navy ships in 1704 where he informs that Ottoman ships were divided into "classes" according to their gunports. There were 3-decked flagships together 80, 74, 70, 66, 56 and 54 gunport "classes". However to not strain the hull the first two gunports from the fore on each deck were left unarmed and as the ship aged the guns were gradually further reduced. The archival documents I analysed so far also strongly justify Tolstoy. Thus, combining all Ottoman, English and Russian evidence I postulate as such:

Semend-i Bahri, Tılsım-i Bahri, Mesken-i Gazi: 66 gunport class, 60 guns
Ziver-i Bahri, Sebk-i Bahri, Peleng-i Bahri: 74 gunports class, 70/66 guns
Ukab-ı Bahri: possibly a 70 gunport class, with around 62-64 guns.
Hısn-i Bahri: 3-decker, 96 guns possible
Burc-u Zafer: 3-decker, 84 guns possible


I only have difficulty in determining the Mukaddeme-i Şeref. She can be a 56 gunport class ship however, considering her length.

All your ideas in interpreting and determining the real artillery strength of Ottoman ships is very important because so far no document which gives this information with certainity could be found.

Tags: турецкий флот
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